Jackie Tohn on Esther, Sasha Future

[This story contains MAJOR spoilers from Nobody Wants This season two.]

“You feel Jewish to me,” Jackie Tohn‘s Esther tells Kristen Bell‘s Joanne in the series finale of Nobody Wants This season two.

That scene was the turning point for Joanne, as viewers see her and Noah (Adam Brody) get back together in the finale, mirroring the season one ender’s cliffhanger. But this time around, it’s insinuated that Joanne will finally convert to Judaism. In their conversation, Esther tells Joanne she’s been overcomplicating what it means to be Jewish and that even if Joanne and Noah ended their relationship for good, Joanne is Jewish in her eyes.

“It’s so beautifully written. I love that Esther comes around and is the person pointing this out to Joanne. It’s so powerful for me to be able to say these things on television,” Tohn tells The Hollywood Reporter about delivering the ending monologue before explaining her own connection to it. “Of course it’s a religion, but from my gut, it’s so much a feeling.”

In addition to Esther and Joanne’s growth this season, the biggest change for Esther is her own personal growth and how that will affect her marriage to Sasha (Timothy Simons). At Morgan’s (Justine Lupe) engagement party, Esther tells Sasha she needs time to find herself. While it seems like the couple is broken up, Tohn doesn’t believe it’s final, “I don’t think they’re on a high-speed train to a divorce.”

However, while Tohn wasn’t there to see Morgan and Sasha’s talk after her character and Sasha broke up, she admits, “I felt like, ‘Oh, this more than anything almost felt like a start of something for Sasha and Morgan.” While Lupe previously told THR she thinks Morgan and Sasha, “Could, down the line, evolve into something else, but right now, they’re just being really good friends to each other.”

Below, Tohn breaks down Esther and Sasha’s relationship, Sasha and Morgan’s dynamic and who Sasha is really compatible with, while revealing how her boyfriend Joe Gillette joined the ensemble as Leighton Meester’s character’s husband and what actress she wants to see cast as Esther’s mom in a (hopefully) third season.

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Throughout season two, viewers saw that Esther and Sasha’s relationship was headed south. But for the first half of the season, their relationship seemed very strong. What was the first sign her feelings started to change?

I don’t think her feelings were starting to change. I think she became aware of them. She was on a path: You get married, you have a kid and then you have your in-laws, and then you get a house and you have a job and your husband has a job. She was just doing the thing we do. She’s on a self realization journey, and is asking herself all the questions that maybe she never asked herself in life: “Is this the person I would’ve picked if I was even picking? We got pregnant, and I love him and he’s a great guy, but is he the person I would’ve picked?” She’s going on this emotional journey and realizing things that have been under the surface.

I don’t think it’s that something happens and she realizes, “I’m not really into this guy.” It’s been brewing. The thing that made it possible for her to start asking those questions is that everyone else is having such a good time and she’s not. She’s like, “Wait a minute, I’m going to be fun! If he’s going to be friends with this Morgan character, I’m going out with Rebecca. We’re going to go do our own thing. I’m cutting bangs! I need a change in my life.”

All of these things she’s doing are making her feel better and are outside the box. The Morgan stuff may have precipitated it, but she’s just on a journey. It’s so relatable how many of us are walking down the street and you’re like, is this even what I want? And maybe the answer is yes, but she’s just asking the questions. I was surprised, but I like that it feels like maybe more of a male trope at our age to be like, “I maybe want something else or something new.” It’s really nice that that’s turned on its head and it’s this woman really taking stock of her life and the trajectory she’s been on and saying, “I do love you, but I don’t know the answer to these questions and I’d like to go find them out.”

Yeah, the love is still there.

That’s even super relatable, that the love is still there. They’re not fighting or hating each other. It was confusing for me too, even as an actor. I was like, “Wait a minute, in the Valentine’s Day episode, she’s so charmed. She does this dance class. It’s so cute. They’re so happy.” But that’s what happens in relationships. And then you’re like, “OK, well, it’s not like that fixed it.”

Were the bangs maybe a sign? And were the bangs your idea?

No, the bangs were not my idea. They knew that Esther was going through it so it was the evolution of Esther this season. Our writers were like, “Dude, she has to cut bangs. I mean, what does every woman who’s going through it do? Cut bangs.” So, that was their idea. They asked me to actually cut my hair. They were like, if we can get a clip-in bang to work, we will. But if not, look out. And then thank goodness. I love bangs, but I had them for 10 years. Our hair friends, Lauren and Patrick, were able to make them look incredible. I honestly don’t know why anyone would cut bangs. The fake ones look so good.

In the finale, Esther tells Sasha she needs some time apart to find herself, and he says that he will wait for her. Can you confirm if they are broken up and most likely getting a divorce, or do you think Esther just needs some time and they will get back together down the road? 

I can’t confirm anything because I know exactly what everybody who watched the show knows. I knew more than everybody else before Oct. 23. But now we’re all on the same page. I think this show does ambiguity so well. There’s so much truth in this ambiguity of the will-they-won’t-they, where in episode one with Joanne and Noah, one of them thinks they tabled it and the other thinks they’re good to go. We don’t know so often in relationships. I also thought that we don’t know what’s going on with Sasha and Esther.

So in my gut, I don’t think they’re on a high speed train to a divorce. But I do think she’s trying to figure it out. And she’s asking questions she hasn’t asked in the past. I’ll also say, I didn’t know about this scene because I wasn’t there when it was shot, and it was just very friendly and nice in the script, but the way that Morgan and Sasha are sitting on the floor and that connection when he’s telling Morgan he’s going to wait for Esther, I felt like, “Oh, this more than anything almost felt like a start of something for Sasha and Morgan.” But it’s the same thing — we don’t know.

Also in the finale, you gave a powerful monologue to Joanne about what it means to be Jewish. Did you have any input on what you were going to say and what was it like delivering that scene?

I did not have input, but I added little things. The scene was so beautiful. When Joanne is talking about how she loves poo poo poo, I think as far as input, we’re generally adding little connective tissue to make it feel even more real coming out of us. She said how she loves the way Jews say “poo poo poo,” and they’re so superstitious. In one of the takes, I said, “Oh, I know poo poo poo is so good.” That was something that came out in conversation that I didn’t do all the time. So I was excited they used one of those takes. But as far as input, no, it’s so beautifully written. I love that Esther comes around and is the person pointing this out to Joanne. It’s so powerful for me to be able to say these things on television. It’s so meta for me and it really meant a lot to me.

To follow up on that, have you had a conversation in your real life similar to how it played out in that scene?

A little bit, but only if it’s welcome. What’s very funny about Jews, and we talk about this in Nobody Wants This — we’re not a proselytizing people. We don’t make it easy for you to come and join the team. It’s not like we’re out there trying to make people Jewish. But when you’re having this conversation with a person who’s like, “I’m on the fence and I don’t know what am I supposed to feel and am I waiting?” You’re waiting for this lightning strike through your sternum of like, “Oh, that’s it!” And oftentimes things don’t happen that way in life. So, I’ve definitely never sat with a friend and done what Esther did with Joanne. But even my boyfriend, who’s a quarter Jewish, I find him to be pretty Jewish feeling. Of course it’s a religion, but from my gut, it’s so much a feeling. When I meet someone and I feel like they’re probably Jewish, I don’t know if I’ve ever been wrong. There’s a feeling there. There’s a cultural thing in Jewish people; our mannerisms and the way our parents and grandparents word sentences. So we’ve been in those families. It’s just a feeling. I do believe it, and I tell it to my boyfriend all the time. He’ll do something, and I’ll be like, “That’s Jewish.” Some people just feel Jewish.

Esther’s relationship with Joanne and Morgan has grown so much this season compared to season one. Did you ever anticipate they’d get to this point, where it seems like Esther considers Joanne as family?

That’s a tough one. I never thought about that. Like, does she consider her family or does she consider her a friend? Because even Esther considering Joanne anything is wild other than like, “Uh that annoying girl who made my very best friend not be in the picture anymore.” I wonder if she considers her family. I know she genuinely likes her. Throughout the season, against all her attempts to not, Esther just really ends up liking her.

But I wouldn’t say she’s friends with Morgan. You can tell that when they got home from the dinner party, she was like, “Cool, she had no pants on.” She’s still not like, “I love that girl!” But she realizes that the tighter she holds Sasha, the worst she’s making the situation and she’s the one suffering. She’s like, “No one else is having a bad time. I’m the one over here with all my cells in a fist all bummed out. I don’t need to be this bummed out.” I think she tolerates Morgan, and I think she definitely really likes Joanne by the end of season two.

This season we also see Sasha’s friendship with Morgan evolve. What do you make of the discourse of some viewers wanting Sasha and Morgan together and who do you think he’s more compatible with?

Great question. The discourse is so fun. I love when I’m in an interview and someone’s like, “I have to tell you, I’m here for the hookup.” I’m like, “Go off, great!” I love that. I don’t know if I have an opinion on it. I leave it in the hands of our creatives. I am not storming into the writers room like, “He better not end up with her!” I don’t have any skin in the game. I just love the show and I want the stories to unfold how they unfold.

I do think he’s far more compatible with Esther. Sasha and Morgan — I think she’s too much of a live wire for him. There’s pieces of Morgan and Esther that really makes sense for Sasha. And that’s the case in the real world, your partner’s not all the things to you. There’s things about Morgan that make more sense for Sasha, and there’s things about Esther that make more sense for Sasha.

Adam’s real-life wife and actress Leighton Meester is a guest star, but also, your partner, Joe, is too, and plays married to Leighton’s character. How did Joe join the ensemble?

Joe is friends with Nora Silver, one of our producers, and Jenny Connor’s producing partner. They’ve known each other. Joe is a great actor, writer, director, and Nora has called him in to read for a bunch of their shows. So this time, Dr. Andy (Arian) couldn’t be there for episode five and Nora was like, “Will you come in and do the table read will do Dr. Andy; there are a couple other parts.” One of them is this guy Gabe, who was Leighton’s husband character. Joe, even read for Elon, the dad’s part. I don’t know that Elon ended up in that episode, [Editor’s note: He did not.] But anyway, in table read, Joe read five parts and he killed it, obviously.

As we were leaving, I was so proud and I was just like, “Oh, man he killed the table read,” but people are going to audition for these parts or already have these parts. One of the producers was like, “Joe, you’re so funny. Would you come and play Gabe for us?” Just right there — that’s an actor’s dream at a table read. That never happens. They just go and you do them the favor. Most of the time, someone else gets the job. And it was a much smaller part too, but the showrunners and our writers are so open. It just became a bigger part and he ended up in two episodes. It’s wonderful.

In a potential season three, what do you want to see for Esther?

I’d love to see Esther’s family. I’d love to meet her parents. There’s a lot of fun to be had there with who Esther’s mother is. There’s Bette Midler, Barbra Streisand, Fran Drescher, Susie Essman. I mean, there’s no shortage of incredible Jewish women to come in, and then that person makes Esther seem like a delicate flower. It would be so funny.

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Nobody Wants This season two is now streaming all episodes on Netflix. Read THR’s cover story on season two and season two postmortem with Justine Lupe.